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Comments on: Pat is hearing voices … again http://claessen.com/blog/?p=58 Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:33:37 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.8.3 By: deannie http://claessen.com/blog/?p=58&cpage=1#comment-260 Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:33:37 +0000 http://paulclaessen.com/blog/?p=58#comment-260 Agreed Paul, I probably am wrong in that citation to Revelation.

Revelation is really meant to be a reference to “The End” of this system of things however…not the entire canon.

]]> By: Paul http://claessen.com/blog/?p=58&cpage=1#comment-259 Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:27:37 +0000 http://paulclaessen.com/blog/?p=58#comment-259 @Deannie#7. I take your post to mean a simple ‘yes’ to my question. So we agree. Only on different grounds.
As for your Rev 22:18, 19 argument: That appears to pertain (actually it very clearly says so!) to the Revelation scroll! Not to the whole of the Bible. I read some comment that says, well, Revelation is the last book of the Bible, so if you can’t change Revelation you can’t change the Bible, because it’s “The End”.

I don’t see any logic in that. If I write a book and write in the last chapter (13!) that horrible things will happen when something in chapter 13 is changed or added on to, then that does not mean, at all, that I can’t later change chapter 2, or add a chapter 14.
But what puzzles me most is how anyone can read Revelation as being authoritive. I mean, we don’t know (for sure) who wrote it, and we don’t know what it means. It was never written as being part of the New Testament: that Revelation is “The End” is only because centuries later someone MADE it the last book: the current New Testament is just a collection of separate books that some church folks decided, centuries after they were written, to ‘bundle’, which ‘bundle’ (the Canon) changed in content over the centuries, being adapted to religious and cultural views of the epoch at the time. So much for ‘no changes’… the Bible has been changed (and is STILL being changed through various translations, re-interpretations and historic reviews -see: Jesus Seminar-). If the number of different interpretations of a certain piece of scripture is a measure of what we actually know about it, then Revelation is clearly a book that noone understands! (To get a feel for the many different ‘main stream’ interpretations: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation)

]]> By: deannie http://claessen.com/blog/?p=58&cpage=1#comment-258 Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:16:24 +0000 http://paulclaessen.com/blog/?p=58#comment-258 We can refer to what the Bible says regarding itself:

Rev 22:18, 19 ““I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things which are written about in this scroll.”

If there is indeed a living God and this is his Word, then it cannot be pleasing to him to mislead anyone by changing his words or adding to them for selfish purposes. So, the words of Hebrews 10:31 points out why we would never want to willfully disregard the teachings of the Bible once we have come to accurate knowledge: It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of [the] living God.

Each of us are responsible for coming to an accurate knowledge of God’s purposes and acting on that knowledge.

]]> By: Paul http://claessen.com/blog/?p=58&cpage=1#comment-253 Tue, 09 Jan 2007 14:00:52 +0000 http://paulclaessen.com/blog/?p=58#comment-253 @Rob: do you relalize that there are countries where you would be beheaded for those two words? (or rather: their implication).
On the other hand, there are many people, who would agree with the sentiment of your remark and WON’T find it bad. They are called pantheists.
And then there are just the plain old nutcases like Pat Robertson ( son) and Jerry Falwell.

]]> By: Paul http://claessen.com/blog/?p=58&cpage=1#comment-252 Tue, 09 Jan 2007 13:52:37 +0000 http://paulclaessen.com/blog/?p=58#comment-252 @Deannie: Thanks for the interesting comments, it brought up some interesting points, things that I’d like to ask you about .. in relation to your own convictions. But maybe this is not the proper place for that.
Let me restrict myself to one question concerning your second comment here: Does that mean that you (like me) think that mormons are terribly delusional and misguided, when it comes to their parts of the bible that you won’t find any Hebrew of Greek original for? (Book of Mormon).

]]> By: Rob La Gesse http://claessen.com/blog/?p=58&cpage=1#comment-251 Tue, 09 Jan 2007 05:14:08 +0000 http://paulclaessen.com/blog/?p=58#comment-251 It is.

Oh, sorry. That was bad.

]]> By: Paul http://claessen.com/blog/?p=58&cpage=1#comment-250 Tue, 09 Jan 2007 04:06:19 +0000 http://paulclaessen.com/blog/?p=58#comment-250 I was just wondering … since God apparently knows all this and decided to go ahead and let it happen (else why tell good ole’ Pat?), does that mean he’s on the terrorists’ side? Must be: Muslims probably have more frequent prayer miles … Let’s face it, we can’t even come close to their devotion and prayer disciplines. So what’s the point of telling us about this disaster? So that we pray harder? But he already decided to let it happen, right? I mean, if we all start to out-pray the muslims, will he cancel the disaster event? But then he would make a fool out of poor Pat and people would make fun of the man for yet again predicting something that is never going to happen. And the guy already had to water down his predictions to the level of “something unpleasant will happen this year and it will also rain”. And what about the poor muslims who prayed so hard for this event? Dang, it must be tough to be God.

]]> By: deannie http://claessen.com/blog/?p=58&cpage=1#comment-245 Thu, 04 Jan 2007 15:26:04 +0000 http://paulclaessen.com/blog/?p=58#comment-245 BAH! so at the end of the matter, since I don’t believe that God is speaking to prophets today, then those that hear voices must be hearing demonic voices.

]]> By: deannie http://claessen.com/blog/?p=58&cpage=1#comment-244 Thu, 04 Jan 2007 12:54:21 +0000 http://paulclaessen.com/blog/?p=58#comment-244 and will mislead many."]]> Well, of course, IF God spoke directly to anyone today, that one would be called a prophet. We can rest comfortably that this simply isn’t the case however with this individual. Why?

God only spoke directly to Moses to use the example you gave because of Pharaoh. He made it clear that he wanted Pharaoh to know WHO the true God of the Israelites really was since Pharaoh taunted Moses by saying, “Who is Jehovah that I should listen to His voice?”

Today we have the complete Bible and the history of all the miracles that occurred, so we no longer need miracle workers or prophets to tell us what God wants of mankind. If we want to put faith in the Bible, we can choose to study it as well as other records to make a determination for ourselves.

Using the Bible as a yardstick then, one can’t help but recall the words found in Matt 24:3-5: ““Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?” And in answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads YOU; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.”

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